<PaperSailboat> Here is the agenda - Website, CTRD Debut Compilation Album, Organizing and planning releases, Critiquing and Review process, Your Feedback, Ideas, Hopes & Dreams
<PaperSailboat> I like to keep meetings pretty short so I will say a few things and feel free to chime in
<Jorts> cool, sounds good
<Michael___> Got it
<PaperSailboat> Website: it is still a work in progress. We have established a database of every member who has filled out the spreadsheet. We haven't decided exactly how we want to use that yet, but it may enable us to have individual profile sections established for each of us
<PaperSailboat> the trouble, i find right now, is that I haven't had much time to develop the content
<Jorts> previously, i've been going to the fb page and looking people up on the spreadsheet
<Jorts> profile sections, even if brief, would be awesome.
<PaperSailboat> which is OK, but I think not a clean, long term solution
<Jorts> a name, soundcloud link, and a bit about what they make
<Jorts> what they hope to achieve, what they're looking for, and how to properly contact them
<Jorts> stuff like that
<PaperSailboat> that brings me to a point I wanted to make
<PaperSailboat> if you're looking for something, help mixing, advice, anything
<PaperSailboat> I think you will be the one who has to look and find someone who can help you
<Jorts> well, yeah
<PaperSailboat> most of us are willing to help, but are probably too busy to go looking for people who need it
<Jorts> it would be kind of silly to go and look for people who might need your help, easier to seek help instead
<Michael___> yeah that makes sense
<Jorts> which is where some form of contacting medium has to exist, like email
<PaperSailboat> I think establishing the profiles might be a good, first priority
<Jorts> personally, i wouldn't mind getting emails
<PaperSailboat> I also want to make sure that information is safeguarded
<PaperSailboat> Preferred method of contact can be what you would like.. but we may have to look at a way of either having an email account act as an intermediary (like email@example.com) or some way of notifying you in a way that would not open you up to spam bots
<Jorts> yeah, that would be cool
<PaperSailboat> i wish i could make this my full time job you know? I could have these sorts of things worked out pretty quickly hehe
<Jorts> haha yeah man
<PaperSailboat> realistically, it will take a bit of time...
<PaperSailboat> does anyone have anything to add regarding the website?
<Michael___> Not really, but I was just wondering how many people have you been in contact recently that are interested still in this project?
<Jorts> yeah, if we could set up a mail server on the site it would kill the spambot possibility
<PaperSailboat> you know, that's a great idea
<PaperSailboat> i wouldn't mind assigning each member an email address, as long as I have a few (as I recall I have quite a few i can give out)
<Jorts> how are you hosting the site, may i ask?
<PaperSailboat> Michael, the truth is, as surprising as it was that so many people got excited about this project early on, we may only have a few members actively engaged.. I imagine there will be many who lurk
<PaperSailboat> and that's OK
<PaperSailboat> I have always wanted to build quality over quantity
<Jorts> well said
<PaperSailboat> we will need to better define what CTRD status really means and who is going to be releasing under the name versus contributors
<Jorts> and i agree, having 100 people doesn't help if noone talks to each other
<PaperSailboat> I will touch on that a bit more
<PaperSailboat> does that help answer your question?
<PaperSailboat> I can be more specific
<Michael___> Oh no that answers it.
<PaperSailboat> i have to look back at our spreadsheet to look up names hehe
<Jorts> yeah! like i said, looking up people will be revolutionized with a simple profile page :]
<Michael___> Once everything gets set up more there needs to be a way to get CTRD out there a bit more for others who want to join. While quality is important I think so is a large amount of people to bounce ideas and get feedback from
<PaperSailboat> ok.. any further thoughts on our website? anything to add there?
<Jorts> yeah, how are you hosting it?
<Jorts> if you dont mind me asking
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<PaperSailboat> I completely agree.. sorry, my computer isn't autoscrolling so if it looks like I'm not paying attention, it's because the scroll bar isn't at the bottom
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<PaperSailboat> hello again
<Jorts> welcome back :]
<PaperSailboat> anyone else having a scrolling issue?
<Jorts> not here
<PaperSailboat> mine isn't autoscrolling to the bottom any more heh
<Michael___> Yeah mine hasn't either
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<Jorts> our fearless leader has left
* PaperSailboat has joined #CTRD
<Jorts> there he is
<PaperSailboat> yay I fixed it
<PaperSailboat> oh crap
<PaperSailboat> I was silly and forgot to copy paste what we have talked about so far, Jorts, can you copy and paste it and email it to me? c
<Jorts> yep, gimme a sec
<PaperSailboat> thank you kindly!
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[20:21] <Jorts> there he is
[20:21] <PaperSailboat> yay I fixed it
[20:21] <PaperSailboat> oh crap
[20:21] <Jorts> wat
[20:21] <PaperSailboat> I was silly and forgot to copy paste what we have talked about so far, Jorts, can you copy and paste it and email it to me? firstname.lastname@example.org
[20:22] <Jorts> yep, gimme a sec
[20:22] <PaperSailboat> thank you kindly!
[20:24] <PaperSailboat> has either of you worked on a song for the CTRD compilation album yet? I want to gauge where things are with that.. my feeling is that it's not really happening yet for most people
[20:25] <Michael___> I have still been working on the one that I linked last chat
[20:25] <Jorts> funny you mention, i was just jotting down an idea for a song i had
[20:25] <Jorts> a significant departure from my usual material, but that's why i find it so interesting
[20:26] <Jorts> probably will become my ctrd album entry
[20:26] <PaperSailboat> that sounds pretty exciting
[20:26] <PaperSailboat> Michael you mentioned you might have lyrics to attach to that?
[20:27] <Jorts> just sent that email to you chris
[20:27] <Michael___> Yeah I have been jotting down ideas mainly. I'm not experienced at writing lyrics so its going a bit slowly
[20:28] <Jorts> was it my imagination or didn't we have a lyricist in the roster?
[20:28] <PaperSailboat> you know I would have to check that
[20:28] <Jorts> Have a question pertaining to the album
[20:29] <PaperSailboat> please shoot!
[20:29] <Jorts> what should we name our songs? Do they have to be related somehow, and if so, how?
[20:29] <PaperSailboat> you should name them however you would name a song normally
[20:29] <Jorts> like it would be silly to have 20 songs titled "chasing the red dot"
[20:29] <PaperSailboat> it doesn't have to be a variation on the them
[20:30] <PaperSailboat> yeah exactly
[20:30] <Jorts> haha
[20:30] <PaperSailboat> on the theme*
[20:30] <Jorts> ok thanks
[20:30] <PaperSailboat> no problem!
[20:30] <PaperSailboat> organizing and planning releases - this will be an interesting and potentially heavy discussion area
[20:31] <Jorts> it certainly will
[20:32] <Jorts> (awaiting heavy discussion to begin)
[20:32] <PaperSailboat> I want to start by posting a link to some artwork I've done around my most recent release
[20:33] <Jorts> alright, shoot
[20:33] <PaperSailboat> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14283804/AlbumArtwork.zip
[20:33] <PaperSailboat> you'll need a PDF reader to open up the files
[20:35] <PaperSailboat> for anyone looking to release something as a CTRD record
[20:35] <PaperSailboat> the artwork you see there is geared for print quality materials. I have a fair bit of graphic design experience so I can ensure a very high quality for artwork- I want anything released under CTRD to be of that calibre and no exceptions. I don't mind designing it myself, or providing guidance on design, but if it isn't print quality, it will not be accepted as artwork
[20:36] <Michael___> Wow I really like your style, especially for the number stations!
[20:36] <Jorts> gotta say, i like this art style
[20:37] <PaperSailboat> thank you!
[20:38] <PaperSailboat> i went back and redesigned previous releases to fit with it.. I have developed a definite bias towards vector graphics
[20:38] <Jorts> yeah vector graphics scalable ftw
[20:38] <PaperSailboat> infinite scalability makes for amazing versatility, especially when the artwork can be used in so many contexed
[20:38] <PaperSailboat> contexts*
[20:39] <PaperSailboat> but as I said, as long as it's print ready material, it is OK with me!
[20:40] <Jorts> yeah, i'm a little weak on the graphics side
[20:40] <Jorts> got to work on that somehow
[20:40] <Michael___> Yeah I don't really have any experience with that at all haha
[20:40] <PaperSailboat> well that's ok! that's what this whole thing is fore
[20:41] <PaperSailboat> for*
[20:41] <Jorts> great!
[20:41] <PaperSailboat> there are a few designers who can help out I am sure, I know of at least one other
[20:42] <PaperSailboat> now for the tough stuff
[20:43] <Jorts> yes?
[20:44] <PaperSailboat> there are two paths for release, you can either release your work independantly (preferably with a link back to CTRD), or you can release through CTRD - which requires a few of us - possibly even just myself to start - to decide if it is a fully realised record, or if it is simply another chapter in the start of your budding musical journey
[20:44] <PaperSailboat> I realize this is subjective
[20:45] <Jorts> music network or music label
[20:45] <PaperSailboat> exactly
[20:45] <Jorts> well, i dunno
[20:46] <Jorts> linking back to ctrd is fine
[20:46] <Jorts> but when would we want to bring on a full on label
[20:46] <Jorts> right away? or should we wait?
[20:46] <PaperSailboat> here's the thing. here's the difficulty - and only some discussion has been had on this up to this point - so nothing is final
[20:48] <Jorts> ok
[20:48] <PaperSailboat> we want to recognize our artists, the ones who have spent many, many years working at their craft, and while we want to support those who are getting traction, we really want the label to represent the strongest releases we have. In this way, we provide support, but we also create a name that listeners will be attracted to
[20:48] <Jorts> aha. i see where this is going
[20:49] <Michael___> yeah that makes sense
[20:50] <Jorts> so like the "network" would be free to join, but the "label" would be for the "hardcore" members of the group
[20:50] <PaperSailboat> the unfortunate trouble here is that we can not simply release everything everyone does and at the same time, expect listeners to understand that while some are gems, they have to sort through a little bit of coal
[20:50] <PaperSailboat> exactly
[20:50] <Jorts> ok, well, this has certainly been done before
[20:51] <PaperSailboat> maybe so! do you know of something specific?
[20:51] <Jorts> ever heard of monstercat? :]
[20:51] <Jorts> they have two parts: a label, and a network
[20:51] <PaperSailboat> i see!
[20:52] <PaperSailboat> let me bring it back to this idea at its inception -
[20:52] <Jorts> the youtube network is more directed towards people partnering with monstercat to share video monetizing
[20:52] <Jorts> while the label itself releases artists that look promising to them
[20:52] <PaperSailboat> that's interesting, but I want to go back to how this all got started.
[20:53] <Jorts> so for the network, just remove the bit about youtube monetizing
[20:53] <PaperSailboat> there is no quest to make money from youtube, so that is a key difference right there
[20:53] <PaperSailboat> I really do want our 'network' supporting one another
[20:53] <Jorts> yeah, i get your meaning
[20:53] <Jorts> i was just making a comparison
[20:54] <Jorts> obviously we're very different from how a typical label would work
[20:54] <Jorts> and yeah, our network and label groups would be tight
[20:55] <PaperSailboat> this whole thing stemmed from a question - does anyone need a label any more? well, not I suppose, if you're Macklemore. but even he had a network of people that he worked with over many years to get where he is. I don't know much about him to be honest, but that is just an example
[20:56] <Jorts> right, yeah
[20:58] <Jorts> i guess in the digital domain and the sea of musicians, labels nowadays are pretty good for promoting a release, but aside from that, you could, with some expertise, release your own music, sell on bandcamp, etc
[20:58] <PaperSailboat> sorry got a phone call there
[20:58] <Jorts> the best place would probably be less than a full on label, but a bit more than a network
[20:58] <PaperSailboat> anywho. the idea was to create a label that fostered music for the sake music
[20:59] <Jorts> yeah
[20:59] <Jorts> read my previous comment; i doubt any of us have time to run a label
[20:59] <PaperSailboat> that allowed artists who were previously working completely independently to have some resources, to take some of the workload off
[21:00] <PaperSailboat> i want to invest my time in creating a way for all of us to be a part of that
[21:00] <Michael___> Yeah network aspect is what drew me into this group more than a label. I am still knew to songwriting/composing and felt this would be the best way to see a variety of different viewpoints and gain experience from others, as well as get sources of inspiration. While it would always be nice to be noticed, I mainly am here to learn.
[21:00] <Jorts> same here
[21:01] <Jorts> if i wanted a label, i would talk to a label
[21:01] <Jorts> ctrd is here for fostering growth, that was the point, right?
[21:01] <PaperSailboat> in my experience, finding a label that fit with what I was going was impossible
[21:02] <PaperSailboat> well mainly there are two purposes - foster growth - and to showcase our best work in the best possible way- ensuring artwork is print ready, sound is mastered professionally
[21:02] <Jorts> yeah, forgot that bit :]
[21:03] <Jorts> but it is a learing experience. someone can learn about mastering and graphic design in the process
[21:04] <PaperSailboat> i think sometimes the hardest thing to do is to promote yourself. With this group, any number of us can take care of that for you
[21:05] <Jorts> how so?
[21:05] <PaperSailboat> well, you have a release coming up
[21:06] <PaperSailboat> say I listen to it, it's easy for me to say "this is really enjoyable, please listen" on social networks..
[21:06] <Jorts> oh ok
[21:06] <Jorts> so things like liking on soundcloud, links on facebook, etc
[21:06] <PaperSailboat> exactly!
[21:07] <Jorts> right on, sounds great
[21:07] <Jorts> well shit
[21:07] <Jorts> looks like heavy debate to me now
[21:07] <PaperSailboat> not sure what you mean?
[21:07] <PaperSailboat> sorry
[21:07] <Jorts> err, sorry wrong word
[21:07] <Jorts> heavy discussion
[21:08] <Jorts> it's late, i derped :P
[21:08] <PaperSailboat> i am starting to derp myself
[21:08] <Jorts> well, let's go a little longer
[21:08] <PaperSailboat> last two thingies to talk about. there is a possibility octiv8 will make it here before the end
[21:09] <PaperSailboat> critiquing and review process - everyone should submit their work for critique before releasing it
[21:09] <Jorts> hang on, one more question about releases
[21:09] <Jorts> quickly
[21:09] <PaperSailboat> sure
[21:09] <PaperSailboat> np
[21:10] <Jorts> What's our cover/remix policy going to be?
[21:10] <Jorts> say i talk to octav8 and do a remix of one of his ctrd tracks
[21:10] <Jorts> does the remix become a ctrd track aswell?
[21:11] <PaperSailboat> it all depends on how you decide you want to release it
[21:11] <Jorts> and by a ctrd track i mean one that went through feedback/criticism/promotion etc
[21:11] <PaperSailboat> if it is a remix or a cover, you need to, foremost ensure that the terms are clear with the person you are remixing - ie - no releasing it as a paid download etc.
[21:12] <Jorts> oh yeah
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> say you really want to included on your LP
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> er
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> include it*
[21:12] <Jorts> never asked money for a remix
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> derp
[21:12] <Jorts> or anything for that matter
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> but say you did
[21:12] <Jorts> yeah
[21:12] <PaperSailboat> that's fine too, Octiv8 may say "OK, but flip me a 20"
[21:12] <Jorts> haha
[21:13] <PaperSailboat> or work out some percentage based thing. but that's all, i want things to be simple. you want something from another member, you ask
[21:13] <PaperSailboat> that should be our mantra
[21:13] <Jorts> right, sticking to the motto
[21:13] <Jorts> ok, that's it i think
[21:13] <Jorts> next order of business?
[21:14] <PaperSailboat> Michael smells
[21:14] <Jorts> eeewww
[21:14] <Jorts> comon man
[21:14] <Jorts> say something
[21:14] <PaperSailboat> he is known for his smelliness and we need to do something about that
[21:14] <PaperSailboat> we can't have smelly people writing beautiful piano music now can we?
[21:14] <Jorts> that's unthinkably indecent
[21:15] <Michael___> Haha sorry I'm here I'm just working on other stuff at the same time
[21:15] <PaperSailboat> ok I am going to lump the last two points together here: Critiquing and Review process - Your Feedback, Ideas, Hopes & Dreams
[21:15] <Michael___> I agree with everything that has been said
[21:15] <Jorts> ahh, taking the "ditto" route
[21:15] <Jorts> ;]
[21:15] <PaperSailboat> no worries Michael
[21:15] <Michael___> Exactly haha
[21:16] <PaperSailboat> we do not have a formal process for critique and review
[21:16] <Jorts> so how will a feedback system work?
[21:16] <PaperSailboat> fundamentally it will be subjective as hell
[21:17] <Jorts> yeah
[21:17] <Jorts> how will we even do that?
[21:18] <PaperSailboat> and for now, until I find other like minded and similarly experienced members, I am going to be weighing heavily upon the process. but I do not want the process to be heavy - it's really just an opportunity for you to be in the spotlight. we may even arrange for physical production of your works
[21:18] <Jorts> how do you mean?
[21:18] <PaperSailboat> that's all. you can release something however you like, if the only thing you want from CTRD is a fancy logo designed to fit your work then that's fine
[21:19] <Jorts> no, like the part about "weighing heavily", what are you referring to?
[21:19] <PaperSailboat> if you want your work released through CTRD - then myself and a few other members will have to listen to it, provide feedback and if it is solid to us, we say "yeah, this is definitely a spotlight album"
[21:20] <Jorts> well, we'd need some pretty open minded judges
[21:20] <Jorts> i mean, some people like certain music less than others
[21:20] <PaperSailboat> i want to emphasize that I would encourage everyone to go down this path because it guarantees, at the very least, you will get good, positively framed feedback
[21:21] <Jorts> so concise feedback would have to be given
[21:22] <PaperSailboat> well, I have a pretty good idea of what most of our members have been doing. I have listened to music from virtually everyone. and there is a wide range of styles, genres and production quality we're dealing with. Style and genre aren't important to me - production quality is
[21:22] <Jorts> right
[21:23] <PaperSailboat> i say that regarding what you said about needing open minded judges
[21:23] <Jorts> you can't give feedback on a genre or style
[21:23] <Jorts> did you get that email btw?
[21:24] <Michael___> Sorry guys I need to get going. It's been nice talking.
[21:24] <Jorts> ok, see you later
[21:24] <PaperSailboat> I did yes, thank you very much
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[21:24] <PaperSailboat> take care!
[21:24] <Jorts> welp
[21:24] <Jorts> just a little left to cover, eh?
[21:25] <PaperSailboat> sorry about that
[21:25] <Jorts> whatever
[21:25] <PaperSailboat> it was doing that silly thing again where it wouldn't scroll
[21:26] <Jorts> haha
[21:26] <Jorts> get mIRC
[21:26] <Jorts> soo much better
[21:26] <PaperSailboat> yeah, I probably should! haven't set that up in ages haha
[21:26] <Jorts> right, so the feedback system
[21:27] <Jorts> a couple of reviewers give some feedback?
[21:28] <PaperSailboat> ideally yes - i would say those of us who have been hitting our head against the sound wall for some time
[21:28] <Jorts> and then the person being reviewed either goes back and makes changes or releases
[21:29] <PaperSailboat> exactly - I would say changes that are requested would only be to enhance the overall quality of the sound - and while this is very subjective in itself - the changes are not to alter the intent or desired tone of the music itself
[21:30] <Jorts> right. technical suggestions, not musical ones
[21:30] <PaperSailboat> well technically both - if for example, you sing off key a bit or something
[21:30] <PaperSailboat> that might be highlighted in the feedback
[21:30] <PaperSailboat> you come back and say "
[21:30] <PaperSailboat> "I wanted it that way, I like the dissonance"
[21:31] <Jorts> ok, i see
[21:31] <PaperSailboat> I say, ok the rest sounds pretty solid, this is a spotlight record for sure!
[21:31] <Jorts> and then...
[21:31] <Jorts> happy fun time release!
[21:32] <PaperSailboat> we plan the release
[21:32] <Jorts> with promotion and whatnot
[21:32] <Jorts> as discussed earlier: facebook, soundcloud,etc
[21:32] <PaperSailboat> i would like to try to shy away from instant releases, but say, let fans know that in one week, this album drops, hear the first song today, then another one later on this week
[21:32] <PaperSailboat> this is where marketing comes in to it
[21:32] <Jorts> yeah
[21:33] <PaperSailboat> that is all worked out with the artist you know?
[21:33] <Jorts> indeed
[21:34] <PaperSailboat> so after all that
[21:34] <Jorts> gets people excited, they tell their friends
[21:34] <PaperSailboat> yeah
[21:34] <PaperSailboat> after all of that.. do you have any thoughts or suggestions regarding CTRD?
[21:35] <Jorts> how about that "hopes and dreams" bit? have we touched on that yet?
[21:35] <PaperSailboat> that's sort of where we are yeah hehe
[21:35] <Jorts> ok i see
[21:35] <Jorts> this whole thing is awesome
[21:35] <Jorts> how long have you had the idea?
[21:37] <PaperSailboat> well it was one of those things, I talked about it a bit about a week before I posted about it on reddit.. everyone seemed very positive about it.. it is a little scary because I don't know where exactly everything will go.. but very exciting too. it was basically the label I always wanted to be a part of but could never find
[21:38] <Jorts> I'm really excited for this entire project
[21:39] <PaperSailboat> there is some amazing talent in the group.. i hope the label does that some justice!
[21:39] <Jorts> absolutely!
[21:39] <PaperSailboat> talent, maybe that's not the right word, because that implies that it's all some sort of natural gift bestowed upon people
[21:39] <Jorts> ability?
[21:40] <PaperSailboat> it's dedication and perseverance
[21:40] <Jorts> there you go
[21:41] <PaperSailboat> passion
[21:41] <Jorts> yes
[21:41] <Jorts> well, i'm sure we're both pretty tired
[21:41] <PaperSailboat> thank you for hanging out tonight! i know it was a pretty thin turnout
[21:42] <PaperSailboat> but I think that we covered a lot of ground
[21:42] <Jorts> we certainly did! is the chat log going on reddit?
[21:42] <PaperSailboat> absolutely!
[21:42] <PaperSailboat> I will edit out the email address / IP stuff
[21:42] <Jorts> well, i think i'm going to hit the sack
[21:42] <PaperSailboat> sounds good! take it easy!
[21:43] <Jorts> it was great talking to you!
[21:43] <PaperSailboat> same to you! thank you again!
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